Below is the entire transcript, refined and translated into English, without any omission or summary. Times are preserved, and all Chinese parts have been translated.
Meeting with Xuewu Liu - 20250318_035158 - Meeting Recording
March 18, 2025, 1:42 AM
2h 9m 50s
Liu Xuewu 10:27
Hey. (Chinese)
Hello everyone, sorry, I can only speak Chinese.
Lili 10:32
Ohh, I can understand.
Liu Xuewu 10:33
(Chinese)
So, I… when you speak English, I can understand by reading subtitles.
When I speak Chinese, it’ll translate into English subtitles, and the subtitles are also recorded.
The system automatically records all the video and subtitles.
If playback is needed, I’ll share everything.
David, and you two, that makes three total, or four in total. I’m glad we’re here communicating about everything CDS-related.
I hope it can be a Q&A session. You can speak a bit slower with questions, OK?
Dave Oates 11:42
Yes, thank you.
Yeah, we do have some questions for you, and I’m so glad we could talk tonight.
My first question is, my understanding is you’re seeing…?
Chlorine Dioxide solution used at 20,000 parts per million, injected into a tumor as little as maybe 2 milliliters?
Liu Xuewu 12:36 (Chinese)
Yes.
I proposed my CDS protocol in 2011.
It covers three aspects:
1. Using CDS to stimulate regeneration in the human body.
2. CDS for autoimmune diseases.
3. CDS for treating cancer.
All three follow the principle that CDS must be delivered to the affected site.
Lili 13:18
What is Brazilian?
Liu Xuewu 13:20 (Chinese)
They all follow one principle, which is:
CDS must be delivered to the lesion.
It’s based on two reasons.
Lili 13:34
Very…
Liu Xuewu 13:35 (Chinese)
Reason one: CDS is a strong oxidant that reacts instantly with body tissue.
If you deliver it too far from the site, it’s impossible for it to have any effect.
Reason two: The mechanism of CDS, I’ve summarized in three points. First, it can destroy whichever cells it contacts, including normal cells or others. Second, CDS regulates immunity—its interaction with the immune system is complex, but in tumor or autoimmune usage, it has huge benefits, bringing the immune system to normal. Third, CDS promotes regeneration.
Because of these three mechanisms plus its strong oxidation, all my protocols revolve around delivering CDS right to the lesion. For a tumor, I do intratumoral injection, injecting high-concentration CDS directly into the tumor, killing tumor cells without affecting normal tissue. It also destroys tumor blood vessels, so in a second phase, the tumor continues to necrose. Another feature is that it eliminates tumor-related inflammation.
Recently at the German clinic, we found that after injection into a large tumor, it immediately destroys the tumor’s structure and cells, greatly relieving tumor pain or heart rate issues from a large tumor pressing on the heart.
So, as David asked: I use 20,000 ppm, delivering it straight into the tumor. I aim to use as high a concentration of chlorine dioxide as possible, effectively killing most cancer cells in one injection. But our clinical guidelines say four injections total, ensuring 100% tumor kill. Since high-concentration chlorine dioxide reacts instantly upon contact with the tumor, it might worry us that it could penetrate into normal tissue and harm it. But because it immediately reacts with the cancer cells, even if it does penetrate normal tissue, the concentration drastically drops. So we ensure safety and try to raise the concentration as much as possible for intratumoral injection.
This is probably the main feature of my patent in the chlorine dioxide field. All my protocols use high concentrations of chlorine dioxide because I deliver it directly to the lesion, not by oral or IV routes that are indirect. The advantage is it goes right to the affected site without losing effective concentration. And it doesn’t significantly damage normal tissue, balancing safety and efficacy.
Dave Oates 18:56
Alright, I want you all to come up with follow-up questions about what he just said.
A.C., any questions, Lili?
Lili 19:11
Yeah, I was curious about “alumina.” Why is that necessary?
J C 19:21
Same thought. Typically you don’t want aluminum in your body, so why use alumina? How does it help the chlorine oxide in destroying tumor cells?
Jim 10-9-13 19:38
Maybe it’s a faulty translation?
Dave Oates 19:45
Or maybe not.
Liu Xuewu 19:49 (Chinese)
Someone asked about aluminum, aluminum…
I’m not sure I understand. Because in chlorine dioxide, there’s no aluminum oxide, no aluminum oxide issue… yes.
J C 20:33
I guess the question is whether you’re using alumina or aluminum in the injection?
Liu Xuewu 20:45 (Chinese)
No, no, not at all.
Right… “Liu?” Let me see. The question about alumina?
It’s about a lumen?
I’m not sure. Maybe let’s change the question. Sorry, I don’t understand that question either.
Lili 21:24
Is that… Are you using aluminum?
Liu Xuewu 21:35 (Chinese)
No, no, no. We don’t use aluminum. We don’t use aluminum oxide.
Dave Oates 21:45
I think it’s a translation problem.
Lili 21:52
Yes, because aluminum is normally not something we want in our bodies. How is that used?
Hmm… Why would it be used?
Dave Oates 22:10
Lili, I think it’s not translating correctly.
Liu Xuewu 22:13 (Chinese)
Yes, it has nothing to do with aluminum oxide.
J C 22:25
Nothing to do with alumina.
Liu Xuewu 22:28 (Chinese)
Right, exactly no connection.
Jim 10-9-13 22:31
So I thought it was broad and effective because it doesn’t hurt good blood cells or good cells, J.C.
Liu Xuewu 22:41 (Chinese)
Yes.
J C 22:42
Hmm.
Liu Xuewu 22:43 (Chinese)
It doesn’t harm good cells, because we avoid contact with them. For example, with certain skin diseases, like psoriasis, I apply chlorine dioxide directly on that area and avoid letting it contact normal cells. So it likely won’t touch normal tissue. That’s why it doesn’t harm normal cells, mainly because of my delivery method.
I know you’re familiar with MMS or CDS, typically used orally or via IV. I have a different opinion. Because taken orally, it can harm the esophagus and stomach cells, and IV can harm vascular endothelial cells, plus blood cells. In my view, that’s too damaging. So I create an appropriate solution and deliver it straight to the lesion without going through other steps. That way, it doesn’t contact normal cells, so it presumably won’t damage them.
Dave Oates 24:55
So, um, I understand you’re saying for a cancer tumor, injecting the tumor is superior, which makes sense if you can go directly to the site.
Lili 25:12
Yes.
Dave Oates 25:15
But what would you say, for example, if someone has a chronic disease that isn’t cancer—
what’s your treatment for those people who don’t have cancer?
Liu Xuewu 25:41 (Chinese)
Right. So, first, let me emphasize that chlorine dioxide is not a cure-all. For systemic diseases, I think it’s powerless. But for local diseases—like skin issues, local infections, wounds, and tumors—these are localized, so by direct delivery, we can effectively cure them. So it’s limited to localized problems. Systemic diseases, as I see it, are not something CDS can handle.
J C 26:55
So to clarify, with tumor injections, you’re using a very high concentration of chlorine dioxide, 20,000 parts per million. Typically here, we do oral usage at much lower levels—like 50 ppm in an oral dose—and see good success. But your approach to cancer is direct injection with 20,000 ppm, which is extremely high. How do you generate 20,000 ppm with such an unstable chemical or gas? Are you using some generator? How do you do that?
Liu Xuewu 28:06 (Chinese)
Yes, correct. When I prepare that 20,000 ppm high-concentration chlorine dioxide, I use special equipment with temperature and pressure controls to achieve it. I’ve standardized it, so the clinics working with me can all produce this high concentration. In practice, patients can’t do it at home for two reasons: 1) High-concentration injection into a tumor is very painful, so anesthesia is needed. 2) If the tumor is inside the body, you can’t see it with the naked eye; you need imaging like ultrasound or CT, which only clinics have. So many people think my protocol can’t be widely adopted because it needs a clinic. Indeed, patients cannot do it alone at home. They need a doctor’s support to use such a high concentration. Doctors in the field understand a drug’s safety and efficacy. Even with such a high concentration, I believe it’s still safe and effective for cancer treatment.
J C 30:15
That helps me understand better. I also noticed in one of your videos you had a “penetrant.” What type was that, something like DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide)?
Liu Xuewu 30:42 (Chinese)
I don’t use DMSO as a penetrant, because I think it’s unnecessary—when you inject it directly, there’s no need for penetration. If we add DMSO, it might penetrate normal tissue.
J C 31:14
That was my thought as well. It could penetrate other areas. Yes, very good point.
Dave Oates 31:21
Right, since he’s only targeting that small area with 20,000 ppm, he probably doesn’t want it getting to healthy cells. I assume the 20,000 ppm is used up pretty quickly, so maybe that’s why the concentration is high. Thoughts on that?
Lili 32:05
Was the penetrant… because he said J.C. saw a bottle that said “penetrant.” So the question is, what is that penetrant? The needle is obvious, but if it was the bottle you saw that said “penetrant,” J.C., that was your question, right? What is it?
J C 32:36
Yeah, exactly. It looked like sodium chlorite, an acid activator, and another bottle labeled “penetrant.” Mr. Liu, I have a friend who speaks Chinese, and I asked what that bottle said—he told me it meant “penetrant” in Chinese. So that caught my attention. Maybe Mr. Liu was using DMSO to draw the chlorine dioxide deeper into the infected area. But as you said, we don’t really need DMSO if we only want direct injection. So what was the other bottle that said “penetrant” in Chinese in your earlier video? Not sure what it was used for.
Liu Xuewu 33:56 (Chinese)
In my early videos, I made many mistakes. For instance, when I first started injections, I mixed sodium chlorite, citric acid, and DMSO.
Dave Oates 34:18
Hmm.
Liu Xuewu 34:19 (Chinese)
…to inject into joints for arthritis. Because the volume was under 2 mL with a high concentration, there weren’t major side effects besides pain, and it actually cured my arthritis. But that was a misguided approach. Later, I learned from experience and made high-purity, high-concentration chlorine dioxide solutions, so I no longer use that approach. If you just mix the raw materials, there are too many impurities, definitely not up to standard, so I no longer do that. Originally, I had basically zero knowledge of chlorine dioxide, and I slowly advanced to a more thorough understanding.
Dave Oates 35:40
I have a question for you, if you don’t mind answering. I want to know how old you are. I noticed you don’t have bags under your eyes, and I also saw you using chlorine dioxide solution by injecting under your eyes. Tell us about that?
Liu Xuewu 36:12 (Chinese)
Yes, when I injected around the under-eye area, I used pure chlorine dioxide solution with no other impurities. It was also experimental. I hoped to dissolve the fat beneath the eye bags. At that point, it didn’t have other additives, so it was somewhat like the tumor injection solution. Of course, the under-eye area uses a very small volume, but it’s extremely painful.
Jim 10-9-13 37:02
Can I respectfully ask how to pronounce your name?
Liu Xuewu 37:13 (Chinese)
“Xue Wu Liu.” (He repeats something, possibly “Xue Wu Liu, yes?”)
Dave Oates 37:20
It translates to “Learn Martial Arts”?
Liu Xuewu 37:20 (Chinese)
OK.
Lili 37:27
That’s cute.
Liu Xuewu 37:29 (Chinese)
Yes, my name is Liu Xuewu.
Dave Oates 37:34
Lucy?
Liu Xuewu 37:36 (Chinese)
Right, in Chinese, the surname is first, the given name is after.
Dave Oates 37:49
Oh, I see.
Jim 10-9-13 37:54
“Kate now none”?
Liu Xuewu 37:54 (Chinese)
Translated into English is “Xue Wu Liu.”
Dave Oates 37:59
96?
Jim 10-9-13 37:59
No, I had another question about how he doesn’t believe it should go into the bloodstream, which is how we do it—letting it gas off in the stomach, enter the bloodstream, and then attack everything. We have a video that explains that. Maybe I can try playing it; not sure if it’ll work if I do.
Lili 38:20
Yes, that’s a great idea. I’m sure he’s seen it.
Jim 10-9-13 38:30
Let’s see if it works.
Liu Xuewu 38:30 (Chinese)
I’ll translate that question?
J C 38:36
Are you going to share your screen, Jim?
Jim 10-9-13 38:39
I’m not sure how. I was going to try playing it.
J C 38:44
If you go to the top right side of your toolbar…
Liu Xuewu 38:46 (Chinese)
OK, let me explain why it can’t enter the blood.
Jim 10-9-13 38:49
Translator.
Kills back here.
Liu Xuewu 38:52 (Chinese)
Um, I’m not sure.
Chlorine dioxide is a strong oxidant. Once it enters the bloodstream, it actually reacts within a minute or even seconds with blood cells. If the concentration is really high, it contacts the endothelial cells of the blood vessels and destroys them instantly. If you do experiments, you’ll see. We observe that many people who do CDS IV use very low concentrations, so it’s not a problem. But if you go a bit higher, say 7000 ppm, injecting that, you might destroy your blood vessels. I did an experiment with 7000 ppm solution into a mouse’s tail vein, and 10 days later, the tail necrosed and fell off. So that damage is obvious, especially at high concentration.
Dave Oates 40:13
Oh wow.
Liu Xuewu 40:18 (Chinese)
Low concentrations might be…
Dave Oates 40:18
Hmm.
J C 40:18
Ohh.
Liu Xuewu 40:22 (Chinese)
Because if it’s a small wound, for a human it might be reversible, like if you do an IV injection that doesn’t cause massive vascular damage, it might not matter for a person. But I think in the blood vessels, it reacts instantly with blood cells, so it can’t reach your target area or distribute throughout the body. That’s why I think IV has little value, because as a strong oxidant, it reacts immediately, breaks down into chloride ions and water, and won’t produce oxygen. So it can’t spread far inside your body. That’s why we must deliver it directly, with a high concentration, into the lesion site.
Jim 10-9-13 41:44
So typically, we try to attack from both directions. We promote bathing in chlorine dioxide, but as J.C. says, we don’t go with high parts per million. Ingesting is only 50 ppm. So I can see that going into the thousands, like you do, gets dangerous. I have a recording that explains something. I’m not sure if it’ll work. I’m going to try, J.C.
J C 42:11
Sure.
Jim 10-9-13 42:13
(Kills bacteria through multiple mechanisms…)
[Plays a recording explaining how ClO₂ kills pathogens.]
Dave Oates 42:19
Say nothing.
Jim 10-9-13 42:39
(Recording continues describing oxidation of membranes, proteins, etc.)
Liu Xuewu 43:47 (Chinese)
Right, chlorine dioxide killing bacteria/viruses is very easy—no doubt about that. The condition is it must contact them. If CDS doesn’t contact the microbes, it can’t kill them. So we don’t even need to think too hard about how it kills them. It’s a strong oxidant that can destroy any cells, including normal ones. So we must avoid letting CDS contact normal cells.
J C 44:56
What would you recommend for leukemia, which is a blood cancer? I know the worry is damaging endothelial cells, but do you recommend anything for leukemia?
Liu Xuewu 45:17 (Chinese)
I think it’s unknown territory for me right now. I currently have no way to use CDS to treat leukemia, which is a blood disease. The reasoning is: I can’t make CDS contact only white blood cells without damaging normal cells. A solid tumor grows in one place—I can easily do intratumoral injection. But a blood cancer doesn’t form a localized lesion you can see. So you can’t inject it. I must admit, for leukemia, I’m powerless right now.
J C 46:17
That’s been my understanding as well. It’s one of the harder cancers to cure with chlorine dioxide. I don’t know anyone who has been cured of leukemia with it, but I’ve heard stories of it helping pancreatic, liver, brain cancers—some of the hardest known to medicine. But leukemia can be treated by normal means like chemotherapy, which I don’t like but I know it can work. With chlorine dioxide, I’ve never seen leukemia cured since it’s a blood disease.
Liu Xuewu 47:12 (Chinese)
Yes, indeed. Currently, I believe my chlorine dioxide protocol can treat two big categories: 1) Autoimmune diseases that have localized symptoms, and 2) Solid tumors. These two are basically deemed incurable by modern medicine. Step by step, I try to tackle them. It’s difficult, but I believe my thinking is correct—I address cancer first, since it can kill people and it won’t wait. I must do it even without approval, helping as many late-stage cancer patients as I can, using it as an alternative therapy. That’s my approach. There are too many diseases that I can’t solve right now. I always say chlorine dioxide can’t cure everything, but it has a wide range of treatable conditions.
J C 49:01
Chlorine dioxide can also help with many autoimmune issues. Maybe not in my case—I’m type 1 diabetic, have been for decades. But once I started taking chlorine dioxide, without changing my diet or exercise, my A1C improved a lot, almost close to what’s considered pre-diabetic. That’s because chlorine dioxide removes glucose accumulation from the hemoglobin protein in red blood cells, letting them carry more oxygen. I can personally testify it improved my health significantly by just taking it orally. And I’d almost consider myself an expert in injections, given I’ve done over 50,000 of them as a diabetic.
Liu Xuewu 50:14 (Chinese)
(“Mm, feedback at that time…”)
J C 50:17
I might be willing to try it if you guide me. I think you said the only negative side effect is pain—a burning sensation, is that correct?
Liu Xuewu 50:39 (Chinese)
Yes. Besides cancer and major autoimmune diseases, I think chlorine dioxide can also treat or improve flu and other non-life-threatening, non-urgent diseases. All around the world, so many people use it, believing it has many benefits. As for me personally, I had an autoimmune disease that was helped significantly by chlorine dioxide. I also saw that my friends prevented flu by orally taking it. So the range of diseases it can help is very broad. But personally, I don’t have the energy to study everything. I’m only focusing on cancer, which is an urgent disease. My approach has reached clinical usage. Many CDS users basically have anecdotal success, but it’s rarely verified on a large clinical scale. So I recommend people pay attention to it, but if you have a major disease, or if it’s something like cancer that you’re really interested in, you still need strict scientific validation. If we say “CDS cured my flu,” that’s not extremely valuable because flu is self-limiting—it might get better on its own. But cancer’s not self-limiting; if untreated, people die. I face end-stage cancer patients almost daily, so I’m pushing CDS for cancer use. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe other protocols can treat many diseases. I just think cancer is top priority and can’t be delayed.
So I’m collaborating with clinics in Germany, Mexico, etc., offering it as an alternative therapy. The main reason is that right now, cancer treatment is not effective in freeing people from the threat of death. I believe chlorine dioxide therapy can rescue advanced cancer patients to a degree. That’s why I devote my energy to cancer. The same goes for using CDS in autoimmune diseases—I’m not focusing on that currently.
I realize each person might have their own illness, or they investigate how CDS might help. But we don’t form a unified force to conquer one disease. In fact, I invented intratumoral chlorine dioxide injection about ten years ago. Until last year, I never promoted it globally because I have limited personal ability and poor English. I also can’t openly promote it in China since that’s illegal here. But in Germany or Mexico, it’s legal. So I personally invest time and money to develop and promote intratumoral chlorine dioxide therapy. It’s not just for cancer—CDS has many therapeutic effects, but I think cancer is the most urgent, which can’t wait.
Jim 10-9-13 57:33
So I think the translation is turning “chlorine” into “alumina” sometimes.
Dave Oates 57:39
Yeah, sometimes.
So do you travel to Mexico and Germany when a patient’s being treated? Another question: Are you training these doctors on the procedure, to inject the tumors?
Liu Xuewu 58:08 (Chinese)
Yes. Currently, I’ve trained doctors in Germany, Mexico, and Brazil. The training covers:
1. Teaching them how to prepare a solution at a certain ppm.
2. How to use chlorine dioxide injections clinically for various cancers.
So far, the German clinic has treated seven patients, all showing a common pattern: any given tumor that’s injected with chlorine dioxide shrinks about 70% in around 20 days, or 90% by day 10 or day 22. Maybe around day 15, it shrinks 70%, day 21 (3 weeks) about 90%. It’s extremely significant. Also, in some big tumors with cancer pain, or pressure on the heart leading to arrhythmia, injection relieves those symptoms immediately. Another big benefit is you can see by ultrasound that the tumor is mostly necrotic after injection. So from both preclinical and these nearly ten patient cases, we’ve concluded that chlorine dioxide kills cancer through three points:
3. High-concentration chlorine dioxide, upon injection, directly kills tumor cells. The bigger the dose, the more cells are killed.
4. It destroys tumor blood vessels upon contact, so there’s a second wave of tumor cell death.
5. It quickly eliminates inflammation around the tumor. This is extremely important because many cancer deaths are caused by sepsis or systemic inflammation. Once injected, chlorine dioxide basically eliminates inflammation immediately. The molecular biology behind that might be complex, but clinically it’s consistent: all patients show it, so the tumor pain disappears, heart rate normalizes, etc. I think that’s related to chlorine dioxide’s effect.
With these facts, I believe chlorine dioxide can dissolve all tumors without side effects. Meaning, when a patient comes, I can kill all their tumors with a side-effect-free chlorine dioxide injection. They return to normal. That’s basically a cure, which is far better than chemo or radiation. So I’m extremely confident in promoting it now. In my view, it can cure cancer. Also, as the inventor, I’ve injected it over fifty times into myself, verifying that even if you inject it into a healthy body part, it’s still safe. Injecting it intratumorally in a cancer patient is even less harmful to normal tissue and is controllable. So for any cancer patient, no matter how advanced, using my therapy to inject every tumor can remove all tumors. Historically in clinical practice, 90% of cancer patients can have their tumors targeted by ultrasound injection. A single injection takes under two minutes. So no matter how big the tumor or how many there are, in theory, I can inject them in a limited time. Our guideline is four injections to ensure 100% kill of the tumor.
J C 1:05:44
That’s amazing. I’ve told some friends about this in our chat. My mother had colon cancer, and we cured her using sodium chlorite not activated by acid. We used 3 drops (22.4% solution) in about 100 mL of water. She drank that 8 to 10 times a day, and it took about six months for the tumor to fully shrink and vanish. She’s cancer-free today. She still goes for routine checkups, but she’s been cancer-free for years. She continues to take it orally for maintenance, to prevent recurrence. She says she has more energy, no brain fog, and an overall improved attitude, just by taking it orally. That equates to about 50 ppm, if you factor in the 3 drops at 22.4%.
But what you describe with ultrasound guidance is amazing. I can see how that works with proper instrumentation to inject the high concentration right to the site. Congratulations, this is great.
Liu Xuewu 1:07:42 (Chinese)
Yes, indeed. I don’t oppose oral use. Many people have all sorts of experiences when taking it orally. Some people, if they have no abnormal reactions, it can have a big psychological effect, too. Some diseases can improve through psychological factors alone. At the very least, oral usage has no side effects, in my view. I’ve tried it myself, in a large dose—one time, I drank 3 mL of 20,000 ppm solution at once, which is far above what most people do, with no side effects, and it helped my stomach a bit.
Now, I promote my intratumoral injection approach because it doesn’t matter which cancer patient it is; clinically, the pattern is consistent. So we needn’t worry about differences in tumor or tumor size. I think they’ll all show the same effect: all tumors can be cleared.
J C 1:09:55
You use 20,000 ppm for all tumors? Or do you have separate protocols for different cancers?
Liu Xuewu 1:10:10 (Chinese)
No, all solid tumors, same. Our current prep method can’t guarantee exact accuracy, but it’s roughly 20,000 ppm. Since it’s not an approved drug, it’s hard to maintain precise quality. We only ensure a rough range, which I believe is good enough. If in the future it’s an approved drug, we must keep 20,000 ppm precisely. Right now, we can’t be that exact.
Jim 10-9-13 1:11:32
You’re muted, Dave.
Dave Oates 1:11:32
What? Which device are you using to measure the ppm?
Liu Xuewu 1:11:42 (Chinese)
Currently, it’s all manual. I need a glass container, a fridge, a fully sealed large glass container, and a smaller container inside. It’s not easy to find equipment because chlorine dioxide gas volatilizes easily. During preparation, high-concentration gas severely irritates the human body, so we need a container with strong sealing. In China, I had special containers made for small-batch production. For large-scale, I need different equipment, especially low-temperature freezing, plus special materials. Last month, because of a minor oversight, an explosion happened—very dangerous. I got about ten glass shards cutting me. Because chlorine dioxide is unstable under high temperature and pressure, especially at 20,000 ppm, you can’t do it without special equipment. If we’re careless producing large quantities, there’s a real risk of explosion. I experienced that.
J C 1:14:29
What pressures are you working with? I know you need high pressure to reach those higher ppm. In bar?
Liu Xuewu 1:14:45 (Chinese)
We’re not at an industrial scale, so many things are not standardized. We definitely exceed atmospheric pressure, maybe 2 atm, but I can’t measure precisely. Another factor is that chlorine dioxide’s boiling point is 11°C, but below 0°C it barely liquefies. You need pressure. That differs from water vapor, which condenses around 80-100°C. The exact pressure, I haven’t measured. You need pressure plus low temperature. The container must be pressurized and resistant to corrosion. For typical CDS prep, you might just place a smaller container inside a bigger one and seal with silicone, but for high concentration, silicone is easily penetrated by chlorine dioxide gas. It can’t hold pressure. We discovered that in experiments—CD gas penetrates silicone more than water vapor. So you must use special materials, e.g., fluororubber for sealing, Teflon for internal parts, etc. In China, it’s easy to custom-order such equipment, but in the U.S. or elsewhere, might be difficult.
J C 1:18:05
You’re muted, Dave.
Jim 10-9-13 1:18:05
You’re muted again. This?
Dave Oates 1:18:10
OK, what if, let’s say, someone used 3000 ppm to inject directly into the cancer cells—could that be effective but might need more injections?
Liu Xuewu 1:18:38 (Chinese)
Yes, 3000 ppm is effective intratumorally. On Substack, there’s a vet who used about 3000 ppm, or possibly less, on a dog’s mammary tumor, and it shrank significantly. 3000 ppm can kill tumor cells, but I think it’s on the low side. 20,000 ppm is better. You need less total volume if you’re at 20k ppm. With 3000 ppm, you might need a volume bigger than the tumor. For example, for a 100 ml tumor, injecting 100 ml of 3000 ppm is difficult. If you up the concentration 10-fold, you reduce total volume, making injection easier. Also, as the solution spreads, the concentration drops quickly. With 3000 ppm, by the time it reaches the tumor edge, it might be too low. So the kill zone is smaller.
Dave Oates 1:21:04
I like it. I have a couple more questions, but let me let you guys ask some.
Lili 1:21:25
Ask your question, Dave?
Dave Oates 1:21:32
Now I have to think of it again…
Oh. So you’re just now beginning to see this in action for the last year with some doctors?
I think we lost him, huh?
J C 1:22:03
He’s there, just remove the screen.
Lili 1:22:07
Ohh.
Dave Oates 1:22:08
OK good.
Lili 1:22:10
Look.
J C 1:22:20
What’s your question, Dave?
Jim 10-9-13 1:22:21
Sukoon.
Dave Oates 1:22:22
It looks like you’ve only been witnessing this with those doctors for about the last year—is that right?
Muted?
We can’t hear you.
Lili 1:22:59
Unmute.
Liu Xuewu 1:23:02 (Chinese)
Sorry. I’ve tried contacting a lot of doctors in many ways. Most aren’t interested, I think for two reasons: 1) My English isn’t good, so I can’t directly communicate with them. 2) The FDA in the U.S. has warned about CDS, so many mainstream doctors are cautious or skeptical about such therapies labeled with warnings. Finally, I reached maybe thousands of doctors via letters, and only found a couple who responded. Some found me through my chlorine dioxide book. So the majority of doctors I collaborate with—maybe four of them—already had some CDS experience, for example, instructing patients to take it orally or use IV. But oral or IV can take a very long time, and for cancer, it might not effectively relieve symptoms.
Before working with these doctors, I had 3 patients who bought my course and injected themselves at home. They had breast cancer, which is easier to inject without ultrasound. Also, breast cancer is very common. That gave me some data from patients treating themselves at home, a bit like I tested on myself. But self-injection is very painful, especially if you don’t have anesthetic. All 3 ended up stopping because it was too painful. One of them passed away last week, not because the CDS therapy didn’t work, but because she paused it after experiencing pain back in September, then by March it had metastasized to her lungs, and I heard she died of sepsis. I couldn’t do anything since we had no clinic to help her. Another was a Chinese patient who self-injected 6 ml over 2 months, and her tumor shrank 70%. That showed me the potential, or else I would’ve abandoned this therapy. I put a course on my website, and 2 more breast cancer patients bought it. I taught them how to make high-concentration chlorine dioxide and inject. But they had trouble finding anesthetic, so they endured the pain—extreme suffering—and all 3 eventually stopped. The first was Chinese, came to China, and I injected her once in a hotel—very painful—and then she tried other methods.
So, yes, before collaborating with clinics, I’d collected some data, but the conditions were harsh, as home injection is so difficult. Last December, I went to Germany to partner with Dr. Wofugang (?) there. Up to now, we have 7 cases with very impressive results. Previously, that doctor used IV CDS in many patients, but obviously low concentration, so it never shrank the tumor. When he saw my approach, I went to his clinic and prepared the injection. Patients responded very well. He has ultrasound, so you can see the tumor changes pre- and post-injection. He was amazed and signed a cooperation agreement with me to promote this approach. But it’s only one clinic in southern Germany, so it’s not widely accepted yet, and previously he was using IV, so switching to intratumoral is a big change for him. Even so, we only have 7 cases so far, but the data is precious. Intratumoral chlorine dioxide as an alternative therapy is somewhat legal in Germany. That’s a huge opportunity for me and for patients. My standard is: no matter how advanced your cancer is, if you can fly to Germany, we can treat you. So we’re also…
J C 1:32:35
Do you have any—sorry—do you have any experience treating brain tumors with injections?
Liu Xuewu 1:32:38 (Chinese)
Yes. That’s precisely why I want to expand. Brain cancer is a big challenge for German or Mexican clinics, because the brain is extremely dangerous, requiring special equipment. Also, you risk edema if you inject a certain dose. I don’t have experience with that. We currently don’t treat brain tumors and wouldn’t dare. But I hope some well-equipped hospital can partner with us to research it—maybe do an animal study with brain tumors, see if there’s a risk, and how it affects normal brain cells, so we can proceed.
J C 1:34:16
Maybe a slow IV drip with a higher concentration, but administered slowly, so the concentration remains in the area longer. Possibly we could see good results.
Liu Xuewu 1:34:48 (Chinese)
Yes, though IV might not yield immediate effects, I can guarantee no side effects if it’s not so strong that it damages blood vessels—like oral usage. The damage is reversible if not large-scale. So as an additional therapy, if you have no better options, you can do it.
J C 1:35:36
I understand. Brain tumors are more complicated because you have to open the skull or risk infection. But yes, maybe there’s potential. Any questions for us, flipping the table?
Liu Xuewu 1:36:48 (Chinese)
Any questions?
Dave Oates 1:37:00
Wanted to know if you have any questions for us? Any?
Lili 1:37:07
No problem.
Liu Xuewu 1:37:07 (Chinese)
OK, sure. Of course. Actually, I’m happy to talk with Dave and your team because I have a lot of thoughts and needs. I do this alone, with no sponsorship or help from others. So I hope through your platform, more people can learn about it.
I have two main needs: 1) Patients, especially late-stage cancer patients who want to be treated in Germany. We’re confident that except for brain or lung tumors that need CT, which we don’t have yet, all other tumors can be handled with ultrasound. That’s one. 2) About brain tumors, we need research, so hopefully an international university or top hospital can partner with us to expand. 3) I plan to register my therapy as a new drug in multiple countries. I don’t want it to stay an alternative therapy forever. Because as an alternative therapy, it’s not known by most and not accepted by mainstream medicine, nor covered by insurance. Many European or American patients can’t afford it. If it remains alternative, I see no value.
I’m very confident if I run it through clinical trials under the medical system, it’ll pass easily. I hold relevant patents, especially on intratumoral high-concentration chlorine dioxide injection. So ultimately, I want approval in various countries. That’s why I hope more people can join me—be they patients, researchers, or investors—to push this project forward into clinical trials and regulatory approval.
Dave Oates 1:41:12
I’m starting to talk to doctors in the US. Some are beginning to lose their fear. If I find a doctor here who wants to treat patients with chlorine dioxide injection, could you guide them?
Liu Xuewu 1:41:48 (Chinese)
Yes, I’d be very happy. Thanks for the idea.
Dave Oates 1:42:04
We have about 31,000 people in our group, and often they want a doctor to help them. Good luck finding that. So we might see more doctors here using chlorine dioxide this way.
Liu Xuewu 1:42:42 (Chinese)
Thank you so much.
Dave Oates 1:42:50
Would you be able to fly out to the US?
Liu Xuewu 1:42:57 (Chinese)
Not right now. The earliest was last year—I applied for a US visa and got rejected.
Dave Oates 1:43:18
Oh, so they denied you to come?
Liu Xuewu 1:43:26 (Chinese)
Yes, but I will re-apply. Maybe by year’s end I can go?
J C 1:43:38
Dave, a suggestion: a letter from the doctors we’re talking about, explaining they want him to visit for training or so, might help. That has a lot of strength at the US embassy.
Dave Oates 1:44:29
Yeah, maybe. Not sure.
Liu Xuewu 1:44:35 (Chinese)
Thank you. The US embassy’s refusal might be because I haven’t traveled much, so they suspect immigration intentions, or who knows.
J C 1:45:08
Yes, that’s why letters from a couple doctors stating it’s purely for training might help you get a visa.
Liu Xuewu 1:45:33 (Chinese)
OK, I think that’s not a big problem.
J C 1:45:48
We’ll bring it up with the group of doctors next time.
Dave Oates 1:45:54
Yes, you’re right. We might do that. Actually, it might be best to have a separate meeting on this platform with the doctors.
J C 1:46:23
Agreed. Possibly with Dr. Pierre Kory or others. Maybe “Tom Tim Tom,” a chemical engineer with a PhD. We can arrange a meeting.
Dave Oates 1:46:42
Yes, several.
J C 1:46:46
We could do it soon. Then you could share your thoughts, get to know each other, maybe get that recommendation letter for the embassy.
Dave Oates 1:47:12
And Dr. Petra, if that’s how you say it—she’s already helping people with chlorine dioxide in the US. She’d love to hear this.
J C 1:47:29
Agreed. So you have multiple pro-chlorine dioxide doctors, which could help.
Dave Oates 1:47:49
Oh really?
J C 1:47:50
Yes.
Liu Xuewu 1:48:01 (Chinese)
OK.
Any more questions?
Dave Oates 1:48:14
Yeah, I think we should schedule another time. I have to leave soon, get up early tomorrow. I do want to stay connected. This worked well.
J C 1:48:43
Best to set up another call with these doctors. We can talk to Michelle for that, as she’s connected. That’s how we can grow this project together.
Dave Oates 1:49:06
Absolutely.
Lili 1:49:11
It’s an exciting time.
Liu Xuewu 1:49:17 (Chinese)
I’m sorry, my English…
Jim 10-9-13 1:49:18
Thank you.
J C 1:49:32
No problem about the English. The translation is working well.
Jim 10-9-13 1:49:33
Thank you for your time today. This is very helpful for rapid tumor removal. We’re used to a slower, small-dose approach, either external or internal. Look forward to more meetings to learn together. Thank you, Liu Xuewu.
Liu Xuewu 1:49:50 (Chinese)
Oh, thank you, I hear you clearly.
Dave Oates 1:50:02
That was very good, Jim.
Liu Xuewu 1:50:07 (Chinese)
Because AI translation is great right now, if you have questions, you can contact me on WhatsApp. I can answer anything or respond to your ideas.
Dave Oates 1:50:38
Yeah, I could share WhatsApp with everyone if you want.
Liu Xuewu 1:50:50 (Chinese)
Yes.
Dave Oates 1:50:58
About 31,000 members—how’s that?
Liu Xuewu 1:51:09 (Chinese)
No problem. Uh…
Dave Oates 1:51:12
OK.
Liu Xuewu 1:51:13 (Chinese)
I’m very open. I want to share all sorts of protocols with everyone, including many for other diseases like hair loss or skin conditions. I have many successful cases. I did systematic research, so I believe my method can help certain autoimmune diseases. Many of them can be handled at home, including low-concentration CDS. I can teach people to make it. Maybe 20,000 ppm is too high, but 5000 or 7000 is easy. Even 3000 ppm is enough. Especially for arthritis, 3000 ppm injection is easy, as seen in my videos. My self-injections often cured my arthritis, leading me to explore cancer. For arthritis, it’s highly effective and costs almost nothing. Just one injection might do it five times, maybe 10 ml total. That’s feasible for anyone, even at 3000 ppm. Some lack the experience or knowledge, so they never tried. If you inject 2 ml at 3000 ppm, an adult can bear that pain.
J C 1:54:06
One question about the injections: do you use any buffer to reduce pain, or do you measure pH?
Dave Oates 1:54:16
Hmm.
J C 1:54:28
Chlorine dioxide gas is neutral, but it can become acidic in water. Are you seeing an acidic pH? Or what do you see?
Liu Xuewu 1:54:42 (Chinese)
Actually, theoretically, CDS formed by dissolving chlorine dioxide gas in water is neutral. No acid, no base. We don’t worry about pH—it should be neutral. If you measured it, you’d have to let the gas evaporate from the solution, then use pH paper and see it’s neutral. I think that’s guaranteed by the method we use. Not sure if that’s correct?
J C 1:55:49
The reason I ask is I use it as mouthwash. I do 10 drops of part A, 10 of part B (22.4% each) in 120 ml water, then a pinch of baking soda to bring the pH near neutral. It works well as mouthwash. So I wondered if adding a small precise amount of bicarbonate for injections could help. The only negative is it might break down chlorine dioxide, depending on how much is used. But we want to keep it neutral. Typically, if we infuse chlorine dioxide gas in water, it becomes somewhat acidic—like pH 5.5 or 6. So maybe a bit of baking soda would buffer it. But that might weaken the solution.
Liu Xuewu 1:57:58 (Chinese)
Your method is overcomplicated, and I don’t see how you’d precisely control pH. Because if you’re mixing sodium chlorite and an acid, the acid must be in excess to release more chlorine dioxide. Then you add soda to raise pH, but the reaction rate depends on temperature, pressure, etc. So you can’t precisely match the soda. I think it’s simpler to use Andreas Kalcker’s method—capture the gas with cold water. That yields a neutral pH. If you mix two materials then add baking soda, that’s complicated. Using cold water to absorb chlorine dioxide gas is simpler for 3000-7000 ppm solutions. 20k is harder, but 3000-7000 is easy. For mouthwash or oral use, you don’t need super high concentration, maybe 1000 ppm is fine.
J C 2:01:53
Right, we want it simple. I agree.
Liu Xuewu 2:02:08 (Chinese)
Yes, many folks… even making 3000 ppm at home is tricky because the container options are small, and we know chlorine dioxide gas easily penetrates silicone. So they might breathe it in. Some don’t want that. If your team wants to widely use this approach—drinking or gargling—I can mail you equipment from China. It’s cheap here, maybe 100 RMB (about $10). If you need it, I can send it to you.
Dave Oates 2:04:09
So is it like the Kalcker method? Or how do you produce the chlorine dioxide with your equipment?
Liu Xuewu 2:05:38 (Chinese)
Yes, for lower concentrations, it’s easily done. I’ll show you how. I don’t suggest using this device to make 20,000 ppm injection solutions, because that’s not necessary for individuals. For other diseases—autoimmune, dry eyes, hair loss, arthritis—3000 ppm might be enough. Actually, most protocols I have are for external usage on the skin. Only a few, like arthritis, need injection with pure CDS. For most skin diseases, you can just combine sodium chlorite and citric acid, no need to be precise about pH. On Substack, I share 11 protocols for various diseases. For instance, arthritis or diabetic foot might need injection with 3000 or 7000 ppm. No need for 20,000. If you or your team want to produce such solutions, let me know. I can mail you an apparatus. I used to have many devices, but discovered only a special one can reach 20,000 ppm. The rest can do 3000-7000 but not 20k, so they’re just collecting dust.
Dave Oates 2:08:49
All right, great. We can reach out to you on WhatsApp, then.
But for tonight, I need sleep. I have to get up at 3 AM.
Liu Xuewu 2:09:13
OK.
Thank you.
Dave Oates 2:09:16
Thanks, everyone.
Jim 10-9-13 2:09:17
Have a great day, Liu Xuewu. I’m logging off now. Looking forward to the future. Cheers, Jim.
Liu Xuewu 2:09:21 (Chinese)
Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Goodbye.
J C 2:09:33
Take care.
Lili 2:09:36
Thank you. Take care.
Dave Oates 2:09:38
Hi guys.
Lili 2:09:39
Ah.
J C 2:09:40
See ya.
(Recording and transcription stopped)
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